Spiritual Satanists in Australia

Hi! I'm Drake, I'm 18 and a Spiritual Satanist. I was looking and wondering if there were others in Australia. If so feel free to contact me ^_^ even if you aren't in Australia. I would love to speak to others out there. Thanks for reading :)

Hail Father Satan!

Hi! I'm Drake, I'm 18 and a Spiritual Satanist. I was looking and wondering if there were others in Australia. If so feel free to contact me ^_^ even if you aren't in Australia. I would love to speak to others out there. Thanks for reading :)

Hail Father Satan!

If I may ask, what is a Spiritual Satanist and how does it differ from a Satanist?

If I may ask, what is a Spiritual Satanist and how does it differ from a Satanist?

Well as you know there are different sects of Satanism, each with there own way and beliefs. Spiritual Satanism, aims at working with Satan and his Demons, who are seen as the original Gods and actual beings, in advancing and impowering yourself spiritually.

Interesting, I've always found a good Chianti and college girls best for empowering my spirits.

There is nothing in Satanism that has anything to do with mystical beings enlightening anyone or any spiritual mumbo jumbo. Mental jerking off begging some non-existant deity/demon/daemon to grant me the power to obtain the things I will earn through my strength, cunning, and merit? I wouldn't lower myself!

Do not fall victim to it my friend. It's a way of dressing weakness up in strength and leads down the path to self delusion.

Whoever is providing you with this information is not a Satanist; at best, they are just misinformed. At worst, they are purposely misguiding you in order to take advantage of you.


Mr. B

"Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams!"
The Nine Satanic Statements
Anton LaVey

Drake appears to be referring to the Joy of Satan Ministries, headed by Maxine Dietrich.

They are a mostly online organization, who believe that Satan and the various demons of the grimoires and other traditions are real, alien beings, who seek to help guide humans to develop our psychic potential and become godlike beings ourselves. They believe the angels of Judeo-Christian tradition are also real entities, who seek to enslave humanity.

They are, by any reasonable definition, genuine Satanists, though obviously not of the LaVeyan variety. I find their notion that all the various demons listed in the grimoires are actual, distinct, self-aware entities, and their idea that humans had a grand civilization prior to a devastating angelic attack, absurd, and Dietrich's connections to the Nazi party troubling; but I wouldn't deny that they are Satanists.

For the record, the notion that Satanism is by definition atheist did not become official Church of Satan doctrine until after LaVey's death. They had been moving in that direction for some time, but 'Satanists ARE atheists' was not something one heard publicly from the CoS leadership until Peter Gilmore became high priest. There had previously, and especially in the Church's earlier days, been considerable divergence in opinion on the subject, just as there is within Satanism as a whole.

The defining ideological feature of Satanism is the belief that humans can become godlike through our own efforts. One may believe that Satan and the various demons are simply symbolic, or that they are literal spiritual beings who aid the Satanist, or something in between. But the core of Satanist soteriological thinking can be summed up as 1) humans, individually and as a species, are capable of becoming godlike, and 2) this will be achieved through our own efforts, not a 'salvation' granted at the whim of a deity as in the faiths of Abraham. Satanists, unlike Christians, Muslims, and religious Jews, can be atheists, as at least 'soft' atheism fits logically into the Satanist paradigm, but one does not have to be an atheist to be a Satanist.

As far as 'dressing weakness up in strength' and taking advantage of people - I won't go into any length, but suffice it to say that a group doesn't have to be theistic to pawn off notions of 'alien elite' status in place of genuine power, or to take money from the gullible - say, $200 - and give precious little in return. So, before such arguments boomerang on us, we may all want to be rather cautious about deciding who is or is not a 'genuine' Satanist.

- Jason

referring to the Joy of Satan Ministries, headed by Maxine Dietrich.

No relation to the Joy of Cooking crew I guess; but a fairly amusing read.

I won't go into any length, but suffice it to say that a group doesn't have to be theistic to pawn off notions of 'alien elite' status in place of genuine power, or to take money from the gullible - say, $200 -

Only $208 with pay pal! Statim Grata ooooh yeah!

Are there really people who take that alien-elite stuff to heart?


I suppose it's a little presumptuous and somewhat disrespectful of me to say who is and isn't a Satanist. So I apologize if I gave anyone offense with my comments. I suppose if people worship Satan or what have you it's really not my place to cry foul.

However...

Theism presents some very difficult concepts to grapple with. Firstly, if there is this God/Satan being, and Astaroth, Foras, and the other demons from the Solomonic Grimiores that are actual entities having an independent existence separate from mankind ( take this as excluding the idea of them being memes,which don't technically have independent existence but may function as if they do). Where is the real evidence of their influence? Why should I believe in this God/Satan/Demon anymore than any other?

Since there is no concrete evidence for the existence of these beings we must inevitably rely on "faith". Faith is kind of a logical fallacy in and of itself; it is succinctly defined as having belief without proof. If I said I had faith in the Jabberwocky surely someone would laugh at me. Why? Because there is no proof that the Jabberwocky exists and without proof there is no reason to believe in the Jabberwocky. Yet, for whatever reason, people grasp this concept easily enough and in the same breath pretend this kind of thing doesn't apply to their brand of deity.

No religion has any evidence their gods exist--though they are always willing to smugly declare how stupid the other guy is for believing in his false Gods. And to boot, many devotees, if pushed in the extreme, are pretty willing to do awful things to you in order to keep you from challenging their views.

I admit, I can see why theism has appeal. There is the terrifying concept of death and mortality to contend with. What happens after we die? Not to mention we all want to know why we are here and what we are supposed to do. Quite frankly, I don't have the answer to either of these questions. Neither does anyone else that I've ever met.

Once we settle for an answer though. And convince ourselves it's right. We've lost any chance we had at arriving at a valid conclusion on the matter. Look at the nonsense that went on for ages about the geocentric universe. All because faith dictated differently. For any idea to be a valid idea it must have some basis in reality. Even if that basis is very hard to define. Justice, beauty, freedom are all good examples of things that are very hard to define yet grounded in reality. When we decided on an idea, that exists only in our minds and has no proof in reality, we must by that very decision actively permit self deception. Then we see our imaginary being everywhere. We see it everywhere because we WANT to see it everywhere. And since we see it everywhere it reaffirms our decision to believe. This is the the rudimentary mistake of Descartes "Meditations" and circular logic. It exists because I allow myself to see it everywhere now; and since it is now everywhere it must exist. But in order to argue this we must presume "it exists" a priori to our statements. And as soon as that happens we've lost the ability to be remotely objective.

However, there arises naturally in Satanism a system of balance, which should keep the individual from committing the kind of convoluted thinking we are describing above. Like Satan you shouldn't be satisfied with the status quo or what everyone says is truth. You should ask questions for yourself. You should challenge authority; and if it doesn't make any sense discard it.

How can you be free if you trade a God for a Satan? And are now doing the bidding of some other being. It doesn't matter what you call it: Typhon, Set, Satan, Jesus, Ganesha, Enki, Tiamat, Cuthulu, the Bornless one, YHVH, etc, ad nauseum. Renaming the problem doesn't change the fundamental problems addressed above.

And how are you being responsible to yourself if you are not honest about what you truly know and only pretend to know?

So while I think you have a valid point in saying that being Satanist does not necessarily make one an atheist. That the eventual atheist/agnostic conclusion is implicit in the nature of Satanic philosophy.

Just my thoughts.
B

*clears throat* Right 1. I came here to find other Spiritual Satanists to converse with, not start a ranting board or come here to have my choice of worship shat on, but if you want to go down that path, maybe it's a good thing he is dead if all his sect of 'Satanism' does is spit out asses like you. Cause I have not met one Levayan that shows any respect or is open-minded to other forms of Satanism.
2. I didn't say there was any "mental jerking off or begging" I said that we work WITH Satan and the other gods. We aquire our abilities still through our own strength, but there's always someone there for times when we are not yet able to do something.
3. There is evidence in Of Satan and the other Gods in the ancient Sumerian tablets. Evidence and truth has been systematically destroyed by xianity over the centuries a good example is the inquisition.
4. I didn't intend for there to be argueing, but I will not stand by and have people I respect, such as Maxine Deitrich and Father Satan, have their names dicredited. Everyone has their own way of worship and just like people who don't believe in things such as chakras and self empowerment, they won't see any proof or ever experiance anything of it unless they go about it with an open-mind. Questioning and looking into everyting is encouraged, but not if you have some sort of superiority complex going.
5. I am not saying I know everything or what I do is the only way, but I will show your way respect if you show mine respect. The way I see things, trust and respect aren't readily given they are earned.

You are a Devil Worshiper.Plain and simple.Spiritual and Satanist do not go together.

Only $208 with pay pal! Statim Grata ooooh yeah!

Back when I joined, it was actually only $100. I'm beginning to feel old.

Are there really people who take that alien-elite stuff to heart?

Yes, as even a brief overview of any LaVeyan-oriented message board or past issue of The Black Flame will indicate, there are.

Theism presents some very difficult concepts to grapple with. Firstly, if there is this God/Satan being, and Astaroth, Foras, and the other demons from the Solomonic Grimiores that are actual entities having an independent existence separate from mankind ( take this as excluding the idea of them being memes,which don't technically have independent existence but may function as if they do). Where is the real evidence of their influence? Why should I believe in this God/Satan/Demon anymore than any other?

Over half of the Satanic Bible is devoted to the theory and practice of magic, for which there is no real scientific proof, either. Does the current Church of Satan accept only the first two books of the SB? And if magic ritual really can have an effect - which LaVey very plainly stated it could - then would that not in itself provide reason to believe that some sort of spiritual entity could also exist? After all, if my mind can influence the world through sheer emotional force, rather than by physical means, is it that far-fetched to suppose that the same force could exist independently of a material body?

Since there is no concrete evidence for the existence of these beings we must inevitably rely on "faith". Faith is kind of a logical fallacy in and of itself; it is succinctly defined as having belief without proof. If I said I had faith in the Jabberwocky surely someone would laugh at me. Why? Because there is no proof that the Jabberwocky exists and without proof there is no reason to believe in the Jabberwocky. Yet, for whatever reason, people grasp this concept easily enough and in the same breath pretend this kind of thing doesn't apply to their brand of deity.

All fundamental religious and philosophical notions are founded ultimately on faith. Even unbelief. True, the agnostic view at least takes into account the fact that the huge variety of religious beliefs make it unlikely that any one set of beliefs is actually fully correct - nonetheless, the atheist notion that 'I don't see any evidence of a god, therefore no god exists' is itself a statement of faith.

No religion has any evidence their gods exist--though they are always willing to smugly declare how stupid the other guy is for believing in his false Gods. And to boot, many devotees, if pushed in the extreme, are pretty willing to do awful things to you in order to keep you from challenging their views.

As you are surely aware, there are many highly intelligent and successful people, including quite a few scientists, who believe that the complexity and (as they see it) miraculously ordered nature of the cosmos actually implies the existence of a sentient, intelligent Creator. I disagree, as, it would seem, would most Satanists (even the Joy of Satan folks, as far as I've been able to discern, are essentially atheistic in their view of the cosmos, having no concept of a Supreme Being in the usual sense. They simply believe that the various gods, angels, and demons are alien entities who sometimes interact with humans). Nonetheless, there are quite a few very articulate people who believe that science actually provides strong evidence of a God, though none of those people would be of a biblical literalist bent, to be sure.

In all honesty, while I'm quite happy to pick on most religions, the truth of the matter is that much of our criticism of religion is really a critique of human nature itself. People tend to react unpleasantly when their core beliefs are challenged, regardless of what those beliefs are. I have met atheists who became quite angry when their own notions were challenged, even on a purely theoretical level. And the histories of Communism and Nazism in the last century are proof in point that an atheist or non-theist philosophy can still be as violently oppressive and intolerant as any theistic religion.

Once we settle for an answer though. And convince ourselves it's right. We've lost any chance we had at arriving at a valid conclusion on the matter. Look at the nonsense that went on for ages about the geocentric universe. All because faith dictated differently. For any idea to be a valid idea it must have some basis in reality. Even if that basis is very hard to define. Justice, beauty, freedom are all good <clipped to save space> But in order to argue this we must presume "it exists" a priori to our statements. And as soon as that happens we've lost the ability to be remotely objective.

And yet, doesn't the presumption "it does not exist" also prevent us from being objective?

However, there arises naturally in Satanism a system of balance, which should keep the individual from committing the kind of convoluted thinking we are describing above. Like Satan you shouldn't be satisfied with the status quo or what everyone says is truth. You should ask questions for yourself. You should challenge authority; and if it doesn't make any sense discard it.

If challenging the status quo and what everyone says is truth is Satanic, then advocating theism would be the most Satanic thing one could do when surrounded by LaVeyan Satanists, it would seem.

How can you be free if you trade a God for a Satan? And are now doing the bidding of some other being. It doesn't matter what you call it: Typhon, Set, Satan, Jesus, Ganesha, Enki, Tiamat, Cuthulu, the Bornless one, YHVH, etc, ad nauseum. Renaming the problem doesn't change the fundamental problems addressed above.

I think most Joy of Satan members (and Setians) would say that they don't simply obey the arbitrary whims of a deity. Besides, if trading a God for a Satan seems bad, what is there to be said for trading a God for a Hight Priest and Magistrate?

And how are you being responsible to yourself if you are not honest about what you truly know and only pretend to know?

Do you really know that spirits do not exist? Is your certainty on this subject any different from the certainty of one who believes the order and beauty of nature must be the work of a supreme being?

So while I think you have a valid point in saying that being Satanist does not necessarily make one an atheist. That the eventual atheist/agnostic conclusion is implicit in the nature of Satanic philosophy.

I would argue that an atheist or non-theist view of the cosmos as a whole, at least in terms of viewing the universe as the creation and dominion of a sentient, intelligent supreme being, follows naturally from Satanic thinking, though I wouldn't deny that some Satanists might believe differently. Dogmatic non-belief in spirits, however, does not seem to be inherently Satanic.

- Jason

3. There is evidence in Of Satan and the other Gods in the ancient Sumerian tablets. Evidence and truth has been systematically destroyed by xianity over the centuries a good example is the inquisition.

On this issue - Maxine Dietrich's ideas are heavily influenced by the writings of Zecharia Sitchin (a Jew, ironically enough, given her views on that subject), who claimed that the ancient Sumerian gods were actually a race of aliens who came to earth, genetically engineered homo sapiens, and used our ancestors as slaves to mine gold before destroying themselves in a civil war, with one side led by Enki (Lucifer or 'Father Satan' to the JoSM). The wikipedia article on Sitchin can be found here.

Anyone with even an undergraduate education in Mesopotamian history and religion could point out major fallacies in Sitchin's claims; one good website debunking his ideas can be found here.

Incidentally, the vast majority of our knowledge of ancient Sumerian and Babylonian civilization comes from archaeological research in Iraq, not from any texts which could have been suppressed by the Inquisition or any other religious or secular authority. And the notion that the Sumerian and Babylonian gods were aliens in space ships simply doesn't match the actual evidence.

- Jason